anyone seen this????

[Dutch Master]

its called loose change, go to the downloads part and watch the vids... its pretty messed up... www.loosechange911.com

[keller 4 ever]

Yeah that is so messed up to think about but if that really did happen the gov't did plan the 9/11 attacks, think about what would happen if that got out and they got busted it would be mass chaos evryone would go nuts rioting. it would be a bad situation.

[montgomeryburns]

dude you must use ptbisco

[keller 4 ever]

whats ptbisco?

[CatFish]

If everyone saw that movie, nothing would change. The American majority is too ignorant to care about that sort of thing. As long as they can lead their suburban life style without Muhammad blowing up their house. Even if the government admitted they did something like that, just came out and told us. Nothing would change. There are too little of us and too many of them. Oh well, I will still be at Wakarusa!

[keller 4 ever]

As long as they can lead their suburban life style without Muhammad blowing up their house. There are too little of us and too many of them.

I beg to differ nnot all of us have the suburban life style and only care about ourselfs and the roof above or heads.

What about to little of us and to many of them are you kidding, we out number them (THE GOV'T) by millions i think there would be chaos because how could we trust them (THE GOV'T) not that we can trust them already It would make things alot worse

[keller 4 ever]

Oh well, I will still be at Wakarusa!


Same dude same :lol:

[Pauly's Cheese]

In GOV'T (MULE) I trust.

[keller 4 ever]

I still havent figured out that dame quote thing ahahahahah

[keller 4 ever]

In GOV'T (MULE) I trust



same dude same :lol:

[keller 4 ever]

**** i still ****ed the quote up o well ive posted here to much in one sitting peace

[Pauly's Cheese]

[quote:dd4ff5164a=\"keller 4 ever\"]**** i still ****ed the quote up o well ive posted here to much in one sitting peace[/quote:dd4ff5164a]
LOL Check your PM's

[sparkle]

back to the topic at hand... a buddy and I were discussing this a few months ago, and he is a wise man. He said that as long as the status quo is not ****ed with, there will not be a serious social upheaval. The thing is we are becoming so accustomed to being in debt, paying income taxes, being pulled over by the cops for no good reason, etc, that is what the status quo is becoming. The police state will be incremental, therefore, people will forget what it was like to have constitutional rights and a REPUBLIC, not a constitutional monarchy. Democracy my ass. Look up plutocracy in the dictionary. That's where we are.
sorry to be a downer, but i've had a couple of beers and think i'm on a roll...

[keller 4 ever]

you are on a roll thats some good input

[CatFish]

Keller- I am not saying that everyone is a suburban tool. I am only saying that the majority is. They are the ignorant folk that contorl the change. Have you ever realized how many levels of control we have placed on us? You can't cry for change at your damn job without being fired. My girlfriend tried to stop something her work was doing to screw their customers and she was eventually fired for it. She complained of people making gay bashing statements by christian fascists. What happened? Nothing! They just found some sorry ass reasons to fire her. It is almost impossible to make change right now. You are NEVER in control of your own life! What freedom do we really have in this country? We have the freedom to chose whether or not we conform and that is it! I have chosen to not conform and I must say, life is not easy.

[RevMasterDudeCrosby]

20 Amazing Facts About
Voting in the USA

by Angry Girl

Nightweed.com

CLICK HERE for
printable version

Did you know....

1.* 80% of all votes in America are counted by only two companies:* Diebold and ES&S.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold

*

2.* There is no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of the U.S. voting machine industry.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0916-04.htm

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html

*

3.* The vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/private_company.html

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html

*

4.* The chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was \"committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.\"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/28/sunday/main632436.shtml

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1647886

*

5.* Republican Senator Chuck Hagel used to be chairman of ES&S.* He became Senator based on votes counted by ES&S machines.

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2004/03/03_200.html

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/031004Fitrakis/031004fitrakis.html

*

6.* Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, long-connected with the Bush family, was recently caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics Committee.

http://www.blackboxvoting.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=26

http://www.hillnews.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx

http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/000896.php

*

7.* Senator Chuck Hagel was on a short list of George W. Bush's vice-presidential candidates.

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_28/b3689130.htm

http://theindependent.com/stories/052700/new_hagel27.html

*

8.* ES&S is the largest voting machine manufacturer in the U.S. and counts almost 60% of all U.S. votes.

http://www.essvote.com/HTML/about/about.html

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html

*

9.* Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes.* In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

http://www.itworld.com/Tech/2987/041020evotestates/pfindex.html

*

10.* Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

http://www.diebold.com/solutions/default.htm

*

11.* Diebold is based in Ohio.

http://www.diebold.com/aboutus/ataglance/default.htm

*

12.*Diebold employed 5 convicted felons as consultants and developers to help write the central compiler computer code that counted 50% of the votes in 30 states.

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,61640,00.html

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/301469.shtml

*

13.*Jeff Dean was Senior Vice-President of Global Election Systems when it was bought by Diebold.* Even though he had been convicted of 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree,Jeff Dean was retained as a consultant by Diebold and was largely responsible for programming the optical scanning software now used in most of the United States.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0312/S00191.htm
http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf

*

14.* Diebold consultant Jeff Dean was convicted of planting back doors in his software and using a \"high degree of sophistication\" to evade detection over a period of 2 years.

http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf

*

15.* None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio.

http://www.globalexchange.org/update/press/2638.html

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/10/26/loc_elexoh.html

*

16.* California banned the use of Diebold machines because the security was so bad.* Despite Diebold's claims that the audit logs could not be hacked, a chimpanzee was able to do it!* (See the movie here:* http://blackboxvoting.org/baxter/baxterVPR.mov.)

http://wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,63298,00.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4874190

*

17.* 30% of all U.S. votes are carried out on unverifiable touch screen voting machines with no paper trail.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/28/sunday/main632436.shtml

*

18.* All -- not some -- butall the voting machine errors detected and reported in Florida went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65757,00.html

http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAftermath04/ThreeResearchStudiesBushIsOut.htm

http://www.rise4news.net/extravotes.html

http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=950

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00227.htm

*

19.* The governor of the state of Florida, Jeb Bush, is the President's brother.

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/news/local/7628725.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10544-2004Oct29.html

*

20.* Serious voting anomalies in Florida -- again always favoring Bush -- have been mathematically demonstrated and experts are recommending further investigation.

http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAftermath04/ThreeResearchStudiesBushIsOut.htm

http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/government/policy/story/0,10801,97614,00.html

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/tens_of_thousands.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110904.html

http://uscountvotes.org/
*

NOTE: *Please copy the above list and distribute freely!*
LET THE FACTS BE KNOWN!* Thank you!

Want a cheap, fair, reliable, and efficient alternative?* It exists!
Check out the Swiss Voting System
at http://www.swissvs.org
*

DECEMBER 2004 GALLUP POLLS
1 in 5 Americans believe the elections were fraudulent .
That's over 41*Million Americans.
You are NOT alone!
*

[RevMasterDudeCrosby]

15.* None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio.

http://www.globalexchange.org/update/press/2638.html

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/10/26/loc_elexoh.html

*

16.* California banned the use of Diebold machines because the security was so bad.* Despite Diebold's claims that the audit logs could not be hacked, a chimpanzee was able to do it!* (See the movie here:* http://blackboxvoting.org/baxter/baxterVPR.mov.)

http://wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,63298,00.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4874190

*

17.* 30% of all U.S. votes are carried out on unverifiable touch screen voting machines with no paper trail.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/28/sunday/main632436.shtml

*

18.* All -- not some -- butall the voting machine errors detected and reported in Florida went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65757,00.html

http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAftermath04/ThreeResearchStudiesBushIsOut.htm

http://www.rise4news.net/extravotes.html

http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=950

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00227.htm

*

19.* The governor of the state of Florida, Jeb Bush, is the President's brother.

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/news/local/7628725.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10544-2004Oct29.html

*

20.* Serious voting anomalies in Florida -- again always favoring Bush -- have been mathematically demonstrated and experts are recommending further investigation.

http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAftermath04/ThreeResearchStudiesBushIsOut.htm

http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/government/policy/story/0,10801,97614,00.html

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/tens_of_thousands.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110904.html

http://uscountvotes.org/
*

NOTE: *Please copy the above list and distribute freely!*
LET THE FACTS BE KNOWN!* Thank you!

Want a cheap, fair, reliable, and efficient alternative?* It exists!
Check out the Swiss Voting System
at http://www.swissvs.org
*

DECEMBER 2004 GALLUP POLLS
1 in 5 Americans believe the elections were fraudulent .
That's over 41*Million Americans.
You are NOT alone!

[RevMasterDudeCrosby]

Not to encourage conspiracy theories, but all things are, indeed, connected. I posted the vote machine information because, even if the government or the military/industrial complex that our former Republican president Eisenhower so astutely warned us about had nothing directly to do with the events of 9/11, there is deep corruption in the current administration and its connections to industry, and the evidence keeps piling up. Controlling the voting process through unverifiable technology is the ultimate lock on power in America. We must pressure current lawmakers to ensure democracy exists by outlawing unverifiable voting machines nationwide. If not, and our votes become useless, we're in big trouble (and I believe we already are). Furthermore, current American culture would seem to indicate that deep economic decline would be the only factor with the power to wake us up from our general slumber. Unfortunately, divisions between the haves and have nots, including those along ethnic and racial lines, suggest that economic chaos would lead to civil anarchy and violence amongst ourselves (think Katrina), serving to further strenghthen those in power by justifying marshall law.

Voting oversight and race relations are central to our democracy and prosperity. Keep the conversation flowing.

[spauldazzio]

I couldn't agree with you more.

People want to spend time talking about \"conspiracy theories\" when there are plenty of real facts and situations already happening.

My favorite is that the planes that hit the World Trade Center were just holograms. Well, aren't there enough holes in the official 9/11 story without having to make up crazy theories like this.

For instance: Why weren't any fighter jest scrambled the second any of these planes diverted from their actual course?
What happened in WTC 7?
http://www.wtc7.net/
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc7.html

Regarding voting and elections...
There is a journalist I saw speak when I was in Portland, OR.
His name is Greg Palast, he works for the BBC even though he is American. Why? Because he can't get his work published by the Mainstream Media here.
He has done some outstanding work regarding the 2000 Florida election debacle. Katherine Harris has some 'splainin to do.
check out:
http://gregpalast.com/

This is a situation many would love to bury their heads in the sand about and continue going about their daily lives. Unfortunately this sort of behavior will lead to the destruction of our nation. The people need to make themselves aware and do it in a hurry.

[PolyOntology]

thanks for the voting info RevMaster...i think I may post that to some other more conservative forums.

I haven't kept up with the latest 9/11 theories and what not, but a while back I found this lecture by David Griffin to be pretty damn itneresting: http://www.911blogger.com/2005/04/proper-release-of-griffin-in-madison.html


Description: David Ray Griffin takes a critical look at the official 9/11 Commission Report. Professor Griffin argues that \"omissions and distortions\" in the report amount to a cover-up by government officials and says that the available evidence suggests that the Bush administration was complicit in the 9/11 attacks. Professor Griffin covers topics he says have been inadequately answered by the commission. These include questions surrounding the attack on the Pentagon, the way in which the World Trade Center towers collapsed, and the behavior of President Bush and his Secret Service detail following notification that a second plane had hit the WTC. The talk was hosted by the Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth (www.mujca.com) and took place at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. Includes Q&A.