Glass bottles - policy in 2008?

[sitdancer]

i did not realize anything about glass bottles not being allowed this year, but i think there was a special mention that they were OK last year. anybody has word on how this will be handled in '08!

i hate cans.

also, wasn't there some rumors about the draft beers this year being regular instead of 3.2 percent?

[scottt]

Please remember that the beer is 3.2% BY WEIGHT, not the usual 'by volume' measurement you're used to. It works out to over 4%abv - just a hair less potnet than the stuff you usually buy....

[sitdancer]

interesting. i guess that means the selection of new belgium they have is just too light in taste for my preferences. i would not really care too much about the amount of alcohol, but the wheat beer is not tasting strong enough for me and the flat tire is not my cup of tea either.

that is still interesting, how come they have this difference between 'by volume' and 'by weight'?

[travelphan]

i did not realize anything about glass bottles not being allowed this year, but i think there was a special mention that they were OK last year. anybody has word on how this will be handled in '08!

i hate cans.

also, wasn't there some rumors about the draft beers this year being regular instead of 3.2 percent?[/quote:2b8c0b10ef]

I don't think they are \"not allowed\" but discouraged. This is what it says on the recyclusa section:

[quote]Leave your glass at home. It?s heavy, it breaks, and it?s a general pain in our recycling rears. The money from recycling aluminum cans benefits local not-for-profits while glass costs money to transport to the recycling center. Shudder at the thought of aluminum encased beverages? Simply rinse the glass bottles and take them home with you, and this is especially handy if you?re from a bottle law $tate.

Simply rinse the glass bottles and take them home with you, and this is especially handy if you?re from a bottle law $tate.

[sexfaery]

I bring my own blue bags for recycling - rinse my glass, plastic or cans and return home with them to recycle. I also TRY (stress the try) to make as little other garbage as possible. I know it is not possible to make no garbage, but I do my best. This year I plan on bringing my new camp table setting instead of paper plates and stuff.

[sitdancer]

it would be helpful for example if they had a compost. i will be bringing mainly fresh veggies to cook with.

but as for beer, the kinds i like i don't even think are sold in cans. and it just feels / tastes nicer out of a glass bottle. and the argument that aluminum benefits local non-profits might be true, the energy-costs for recycling aluminum are a lot higher than for glass though. maybe somebody has a link to a full life-cycle comparison between bottles and cans? i would be surprised if cans are the more eco-friendly option of the two, but i am lacking prove - just a gut feeling.

[Uptownin']

4% abv? They still make that stuff?

I'm hoping to bring a batch of \"Waka\" home-brew with me, definitely more than 4%.

As for the comparison between bottles and cans, I don't have any info on hand, but I seem to recall that aluminum is much easier to recycle (looking at the energy involved for melting, etc.) and it's waaaay cleaner to recycle aluminum than it is to make a new can from scratch.
I re-use all my bottles though, so that's the way to go for me. :D

[algernon]

Glass vs. aluminum: It actually costs money to get the glass from Wakarusa recycled, due to shipping costs and the high-cost process of turning it back into something usable. I'm under the impression that the reason Recyclusa is willing to take a loss is that in 2006, all glass had to be disposed of (dumped) on entering, creating the cluster of a line and the wait. Recycling the aluminum, on the other hand, can actually turn a profit, which seems to be funneled back to local charitable organizations.

So in the interest of not creating unneccessary costs for Recyclusa (and a good reminder for all of us on Earth Day!) --

Avoid glass if you can, recycle it yourself if you need to use it, give it to recyclusa if your only other option is throwing it away.

[sitdancer]

what you are saying is only connected to the waka side. i completely agree that recycling alu is much better than extracting new stuff from the earth. and i can also see how the collecting is easier. that does not mean that the total impact on the environment is less, just because you need more energy to get the glass to the recycling plant does not mean the total process uses more energy. and using cans, even if they are recycled in the end, will also lead to a higher demand of virgin raw material, the extraction of which REALLY screws up the environment.

but again, i have no life-cycles analysis that i have seen. i just think that the picture waka paints here is only for their part in the process, not the process as a whole. and only the whole process counts if you really want to be eco-concious (which would probably mean not drinking at all, since there is always energy wasted in producing and shipping the stuff around - but that won't really be an option at a festival).

[RobDogg15]

I'm glad this topic was brought up. I, for one, wouldn't have really thought about the difference b/t recycling glass vs. aluminum at the festival. Since we're flying, we'll be buying plenty of glass bottles once we get to KC. Especially since y'all have so many tasty brews that we can't get out here -- New Belgium included.

That being said, I'll take this into account when it comes to the supply of cheap beer I'll buy (which probably won't be much) and make sure that consists of only cans.

Also, can someone point me to a recycling center on the way out of Lawrence? That way we'll just bag our glass seperately and recycle it ourselves on the way back to the airport.

Wow, I just realized how much I don't want to think about June 9th.

[Shagadellic]

ya june 9th will suck, but i'm sure by then i'm gonna be ready to head back to the old home stead. it's only a 10.5 hour drive, well maybe 11.5, we have to drop jimbo off in dallas.....really wish we could get a vehicle converted to vegetable oil for the trip that would really cut down on expenses.

[katieb!]

Bottom line...it would suck ASS to step on some broken glass.

Its not hard to change your beer drinkin' ways for one weekend.

[Shagadellic]

i agree

[RobDogg15]

I agree with the non-footslicing sentiment too. I usually drink the glass around camp and switch to cans for the walk to the shows. That way if you have to throw them out, it's less of a waste of good beer, and if the very thinkable happens and it slips out of my hand, it's not in the path of thousands of people who are as opposed to sliced feet as I am.

[sitdancer]

i never once took a bottle away from my campground last year, so the likelihood some will have to step into broken glass because of me if i end up bringing any is very slim :D

[travelphan]

I brew my own beer and if anyone wants to give me their empty beer bottles I will be happy to take them home with me.

[CPJSJohnny]

[quote:46efd820ff=\"katieb!\"]Bottom line...it would suck ASS to step on some broken glass.

Its not hard to change your beer drinkin' ways for one weekend.[/quote:46efd820ff]

I will concur with this, but on the other hand I would still recommend that you keep being barefoot at Wakarusa to a minimum.

I have seen many foot injuries at Wakarusa and many people in a bad way because they overlooked bringing proper shoes. I met a girl the second year that only brought a pair of flip-flops and blew them out the first day. I have also run across lots of folks that had a little too much to fast and took off their shoes only to leave them behind. I think it was the second year that someone in our camp had their shoes stolen by some guy that had misplaced his the night before, we did catch him. I think at Wakarusa it would be good to take Phish's advice and take care of your shoes.
Johnny B

[scottt]

I brew my own beer and if anyone wants to give me their empty beer bottles I will be happy to take them home with me.[/quote:a44cef3618]

Ditto - as long as they are not screw-tops. Buying empty bottles from the homebrew store is ridiculous when you can re-use the ones you bring home from the store that are full of delicious beer!

I always re-use my bottles:
Immediately rinse out the bottle when you pour a glass
Put the bottle back in the box you brought it in
Take it home
Sanitize
Fill with beer
Repeat




As far as the ABV vs. ABW question. New Belgium brews beer specifically for Wakarusa to meet the state laws regarding strength of beer which can be consumed in a state park.

http://www.kdwp.state.ks.us/news/state_parks/park_regulations

[quote]Consumption of cereal malt beverages containing no more than 3.2 percent alcohol is permitted on department lands and waters unless otherwise posted.


3.2%abw = 4%abv

[kgbnfx]

I'll have some Newcastle bottles for whoever wants them? Zac can you use a case or two?

[travelphan]

[quote:6c4eddb7f8=\"kgbnfx\"]I'll have some Newcastle bottles for whoever wants them? Zac can you use a case or two?[/quote:6c4eddb7f8]

I can't remember are Newcastle bottles clear or are they dark amber color? If they are clear I cannot use them. Sunlight will skunk your beer within 5 minutes. That is why so many beers come in dark bottles.

All your big mass breweries like bud and coors can use clear because of certain chemicals they use to keep the beer fresh. another reason why those beers SUCK! :wink:

[travelphan]

[quote:fbdad2f9ae=\"scottt\"]

Ditto - as long as they are not screw-tops. Buying empty bottles from the homebrew store is ridiculous when you can re-use the ones you bring home from the store that are full of delicious beer!

I always re-use my bottles:
Immediately rinse out the bottle when you pour a glass
Put the bottle back in the box you brought it in
Take it home
Sanitize
Fill with beer
Repeat






[/quote:fbdad2f9ae]

Yea what he said

[kgbnfx]

Ouch....you just dissed my Newcastle. I didn't think Budweiser or Coors were in a clear bottles?

[Me]

The end result of recycled glass bottles is often times the landfill. I've worked with both public and private (waste management) recycling centers and there are times that they simply crush the glass so it doesn't take as much room and them dump it in the ground or ship it off to be incinerated with the rest of the garbage.

This happened all the time with green glass, which there was no market for. Also if the brown or clear glass was even mixed a little they couldn't get rid of it and had to dump it.

I never once saw aluminum go into a landfill though.

[travelphan]

[quote:a7f853a009=\"kgbnfx\"]Ouch....you just dissed my Newcastle. I didn't think Budweiser or Coors were in a clear bottles?[/quote:a7f853a009]

Whoops..wasn't trying to dis Newcastle...just could not remember the color of bottles...I really I was just talking about the mass produced beer that is in clear bottles...

[LunaChic420]

Ironically, the recycling drop-off in Lawrence is at the goddam Wal-Mart! Although the recycling is run by Community Living Opportunities, a local, non-profit organization that works with developmentally disabled folks. The Wal-Mart is at 31st and Iowa-ish

[electroHEAD]

I remember in i think 06 (year they banned glass) pulling up to check point and there were just barrell fulls and piles of beer and liquor, luckily we got through with our two cases but i wondered what they were going to do with all that beer & booze

[LunaChic420]

security gots to drink too

[Recycalusa]

Hey all, we couldn't help but chime in :D

Recycling is not perfect. While recycling saves energy and resources, it still uses said energy and resources to sort, crush, transport, shred, melt, purify, strain, mold, cool, and transport again.

Remember that recycling is the 3rd R, it's best to Reduce, Reuse, THEN Recycle in that order.

In short, kudos to home brewers and anybody who supports their local breweries as these drinks are enjoyed in reusable containers such as pint glasses, bottles, and growlers. It's too bad that Wakarusa has a no keg policy, as that is the preferred enviro option. :wink:

Wakarusa openly allowed glass last year for the first time, and this year they have made no statements either way. They are allowed, but definitely not encouraged.

A great article comparing the enviro-impacts of glass vs. aluminum:
http://www.slate.com/id/2186219/

Some quick facts from the article and from Wikipedia:

Melting point of glass 2,600-2,800 (F)
Melting point of aluminum 1,200 (F)

Average weight of glass bottle 6 ounces
Average weight of aluminum can <1 ounce

Glass is made from the readily available silica (sand)
Aluminum is made from bauxite, an ore that requires harsh extraction from the earth. By recycling aluminum, you lessen the demand on extracting bauxite.

Recycling glass is 27% efficient (in terms of energy use)
Recycling aluminum is 95% efficient (energy)

Both glass and aluminum are infinitely recyclable

Glass is a pain in Recycalusa's a$$ and it took us 3 years to find a place willing to accept large amounts of mixed glass (sorting green from brown from clear at Wakarusa is not an option).

The money collected in 2007 from aluminum allowed us to donate more than $1,200 to Students for Environmental Action (K-State), Student Farm Club (K-State), and the Environs (KU)... can you tell we're Wildcats?

[Me]

Thanks for your input Recycalusa....whoever you are.

If you are serious about recycling please look into your area's scene. Simply reading the rules/regulations that are distributed by your city are not enough. You need to find out where the materials are going and what will happen to them.

Ask your carrier where the materials go and do some research. Simply dropping them off at the local Wal Mart doesn't mean that they will be recycled.

As far as glass goes...keep it at your campsite!!!

[RobDogg15]

This is really good info. Thanks. So, I'll ask this again: Where is a good place to drop glass off in Lawrence?

In the interest of helping Recyclusa and Waka in general with the recycling efforts, we'd be happy to carry ours out with is and drop it off on the way back to KCI.

[Me]

This is really good info. Thanks. So, I'll ask this again: Where is a good place to drop glass off in Lawrence?

I'm not from Lawrence but this was posted earlier.

[quote:92bca152d7=\"LunaChic420\"]Ironically, the recycling drop-off in Lawrence is at the goddam Wal-Mart! Although the recycling is run by Community Living Opportunities, a local, non-profit organization that works with developmentally disabled folks. The Wal-Mart is at 31st and Iowa-ish[/quote:92bca152d7]

[RobDogg15]

wow, don't know how I missed that. Thanks for the info!

[canexplain]

i wonder if this goes for food stuffs or just camping stuff in general ... we have big pickle jars we store snacks in and one year i know we couldnt bring any glass in ... and if glass beer is ok, how about glass tequila :) cr****

[monodub]

if you act a fool and throw your waste on the ground, leave the bottled beer at home. if you can be responsible, even in your not-so-sober states, then i wouldn't fret about glass being taken away. just be careful with it. the worst run in with the fuzz i've ever had at waka: i was on shakedown with a glass bottle and the cop said, \"hey, you can't have glass bottles in this area.\" i said, \"oh.\" he said, \"why don't you hurry up and finish that.\" i said, \"i'd be happy to.\" then he took my empty bottle for me. what a guy!